Courtney McCrea of Recast Capital

Welcome to the Puck Venture Capital and Beyond, a show that examines the changing landscape of our world. We'll have candid conversations with VCs, entrepreneurs, and thought leaders grappling with our current challenges and providing solutions to key problems we face as a nation. I'm Jim Beer, president of CMBG Advisors. This podcast brings change makers to the table to discover the inner workings behind their decision making strategies and ultimately to how they got to where they are today. When all you do is help out emerging managers in venture, it is a very clean slate.

Like, you know your path forward, and so we're happy to be a signal in market of information that can be helpful to this community of managers. On today's episode of the Puck, I have the great pleasure of talking with Courtney McCray, co founder and managing partner at Recast Capital, a private equity firm created to invest in and support emerging managers and venture capital. Courtney shares her journey from starting out at Westin Presidio, working on a billion dollar fund to eventually founding Recast Capital. We discussed the current economic climate, the diversification of emerging management, and our own personal commitment to advocate for the causes close to her heart. Courtney McCrae, Recast Capital.

Welcome to the Puck. We are excited to have this discussion today. And before we jump in, can you just tell our audience a little bit about yourself? Sure. And thank you, Jim, for having me.

So I have been in the private equity industry for my entire career. Fast forward to when I entered the venture business, it was about 1997. I was a part of the Kaufman Fellows three class. And back then, the way the Kaufman Fellows program worked is that you became a Kaufman Fellow and then you had to go through a process of finding a venture firm that wanted to take you. And I was fortunate that I ended up through that matching process joining a great growth equity fund called Weston Presidio.

The next generation has since taken it over, and it's now called Mainpost Partners. But I started working with Michael Lazarus and Michael Cronin. They were the two founders of Western Presidio, and I joined in the back half of the very first fund. So it was a very exciting and entrepreneurial time to be a part of the organization. I joined as a principal, was there for seven years, and I was a general partner in fund four, which was a billion 4 fund.

Wow. So it was a long time ago. And when I left, I was very opinionated about what makes for a very good venture capital fund, growth equity fund, and what the criteria were that I thought would make for a superior fund. So I ended up going to work for, boutique venture capital fund to funds called Weather Gauge. One of the, founding partners, Tim Bliamptus, said, okay.

Take all your hypotheses on what makes for a good growth equity manager and run regressions on your hypotheses. Get as much data as you can. And so I did that. I met with a 130 growth equity managers. I ran regressions.

It was intellectually fascinating. And I came to the conclusion that I was wrong, that you could actually make money or lose money as a venture capitalist or in a growth equity manager across the spectrum. You could have a large fund and make money or not make money. You could have a small fund and make money or not make money. You could put a lot of leverage on the company or no leverage.

You could have a fast growing company or a slow growing company. It had more to do with the managers being the right managers for the type of investing that they were pursuing. And so that was a great learning. Anyway, I was at Weather Gauge for ten years, one of three investment managing directors. I joined in the back half of weather gauge fund one.

And then I joined in the back half of weather gauge fund one. And with my partners, helped to deploy the rest of weather gauge fund one. And then with my partners, helped to raise and deploy funds two, three, and four. In total, it was roughly a billion dollars committed, and it was exactly a 100 funds. Yeah.

I mean, that was real money back in the day. There weren't a lot of billion dollar funds out there doing deals. I mean, we all know about Sequoia and Benchmark and so forth. But, I mean, now we're living in a world where, yes, there's a lot of billion dollar funds, and we also have a lot of $10,000,000 funds. But when you were doing that, there weren't hundreds of funds doing those size deals.

We ended up in our weather gauge fund too. We saw an opportunity that was happening in the industry where there was this next generation of scrappy, hardworking, well networked with the entrepreneurs that mattered angel investors that were now raising their first institutional fund. And they're usually were solo GPs, although in some situations, there were two general partners, and they were raising what I'd consider to be right sized funds for what they were pursuing. Those managers, for the most part, knocked the ball off the cover. They did incredibly well.

And so I when I left Weather Gauge, I was passionate that institutional investors needed to have thoughtful, diversified exposure to emerging managers in venture to get the return that everyone's looking to get out of their venture portfolio. And I was also under the distinct impression that the emerging manager community, as it had gotten it swelled, it became so large over the last five years. It also had become much more diverse than the incumbent managers. And so I connected with my now partner, Sarah, and we both saw eye to eye on the opportunity to invest in emerging managers in venture. And that by doing so, it was a pathway to increase the diversity of who is a venture capitalist.

It sounds like that led to recast and recast mission statement. And so take a little time in the venture space. What is it that recast mission statement is propelling you to do that's different from the traditional model? Yes. So one of the things that Sarah and I had both experienced is that you say no a lot more than you say yes.

And yet, you wanna be helpful to these managers. You wanna provide them with insights, with answers to some of the basic questions that they have. And so when we started recast, we started it with two sides of the business. We have an investing arm that is actually investing in emerging managers and venture, institutional funds one, two, or three with a diversity preference defined as one member of the senior investment team identifies as an underrepresented minority within the venture capital ecosystem. And because these managers are usually partnerships of one to three individuals, that diversity translates into economic ownership at the fund level and at the management company level as well.

And then the other side of the business is an educational platform, cohort based twice a year, 12 to 15 funds go through our program, tuition free. We are fortunate that we had underwriting from a number of sponsors in order to support that side of the business and including giving executive coaching to the individuals that go through that program. In total, we've had 52 funds go through the program. Over 80% have had at least one general partner who identifies as female, and over 50% have had at least one general partner who identifies as a person of color. So very proud of those statistics.

The topics are really around fundraising. How you do your pitch, LP archetypes, and we try and bring in, an emerging manager who's now successful, not emerging anymore, and reflective of their experiences. I find that to be one of the most interesting sessions that we do. And then we also try and increase the top of the funnel for LPs that might be interested in these managers. So, Courtney, and I apologize if this is a dumb question because I missed the pitch.

Are you then in your fun investing in these managers as opposed to going directly into a VC, Recast investing in these smaller funds? Recast is investing in venture capital funds that are early in their journey. Usually, they're raising under a $100,000,000. Most are actually raising under $85,000,000. We think of the educational program as widening our top of funnel.

We come from traditional venture investing entities, and so we are really looking to try and expand who it is that's in our ecosystem. Yes. We could easily be investing in some of these managers, but we are not talking about investing in all of them. Right. So if I heard you right, a lot of people talk about that one of the secrets to investing, and you learn this at weather gauge, is it's not one size fits all, it's execution.

And at the end of the day, if you have the right team in place, whatever the challenge is, they're gonna figure out how to go from a to b. It's interesting because I've always thought of a traditional VC model is you are picking the CEO and the team that's gonna be able to execute, and even when they're knocked down. Right? And they have to pivot, they're gonna have the creativity to do that and the grit. What you're saying is, you're coming in a step higher than that.

You're actually finding the people, like a fund to fund that are gonna go out and have the sophistication to know that they're gonna pick good companies. Their execution is different. Their execution is can they find and really weed out those people that are just talk, but they're actually able to get the job done. Yes. That's exactly right.

And usually, these individuals have something they bring to the table in terms of ways that they could help these entrepreneurs, which allows them to get into the seed stage or in some cases, the pre seed, in some cases, the series a. It could be recruiting. It could be help in getting customers. It could be something I haven't even thought of before. Sometimes it's the unique, contrarian idea that actually seems to resonate and attract the entrepreneurs who matter.

Fuzzy. So how long now have you been actually testing this model, so to speak? And have you had exits for instance or they had exits? Yes. So we've been doing this for a little over two years.

And one of the things we are capturing is our educational program and to what extent those managers raise capital and have success after we have them through our program. And, yes, there have been markups. There have been incredible fundraisers. It's been a very good fundraising market for emerging managers, especially diverse emerging managers over the last two years. In venture, if you invest at the pre seed or the seed stage, it usually takes a lot more than two years to get to an exit.

So I can't say there's been a lot of exits except in the investments that we've made out of our fund investment vehicle. Those managers that did have a prior fund, yes, there have been exits during this time period from those prior funds, but not from the fund that we invested in. And look, it all these things take time to materialize and so forth. Switching to a little lighter subject for a second. My instinct is that you went to Northwestern, spent some time in Evanston, and I had a son that went to Northwestern.

And one of my favorite places in the world was Pete Miller's, which was in Evanston. So I'm just wondering how did you like Evanston? What was your time like? So I loved Kellogg for business school. It's a beautiful campus.

It's a great program. And back then, when I went, there was not the Internet. I mean, it was early days, so you didn't have a cell phone. And one of the beauties of Evanston is it was a dry town until the seventies. And even after the seventies, they're very restricted on the amount of liquor licenses they would provide.

And so there were three bars at the time that I was there. And we would start at Pete Miller's, which was a little bit more the graduate students place. And if all your friends weren't there, then you went to the second bar. And if all your friends weren't there, you went to the undergrad bar. And that's how you found your people.

But it was a great experience. Some of my dearest friends have come out of that network. Yeah. My son was an undergraduate, and one of my favorite experiences, you know, I can count on one hand, was sitting at the bar at Pete Miller's with a man by the name of Sean. And you could just tell he had spent a lot of time having these kind of talks with people and everybody else, and it just made it such a cool experience.

It's a great, great town and great time there. So I do have another issue that may be unique when you talked about your time at Kellogg and you're talking about pre cell phones. I've lived through some downturns. I went to the o1.com blow up. I remember the 2008, and I know a lot of VCs now in their thirties that drive Teslas.

And they have not ever seen a down round. They have not seen limited partners say, you know, our allocation is too high now because our other things around, so we're not gonna do a follow-up round. Are you counseling your funds and your portfolio companies that that they need to approach the next couple years with a little different approach, or do you not see this as a a sea change right now? So I completely agree with you. I also have lived through many corrections in the financial markets, including in venture.

And the advice that we give managers is not so much around how to manage your existing portfolio companies. It's more how you manage your fund. And one of the biggest issues in this type of a time frame when you might have down rounds or you might have investors that come in and, sure, they'll give you a slight markup, but they're not gonna bear the pain if there's a correction down the road. You're gonna have to eat that. So what we're advising them right now is to be really, really careful about reserves.

If there is a situation where someone comes in and they put onerous terms to come into that round, you're gonna wanna participate in that round so you've got some protection. That's where you need to have a little bit more dry powder so you can pay to play. It's funny. We've spoken to different people because we're trying to give advice to people. I run a company called CMBG, and one of the things we do is we help make people's oxygen last longer, and then God forbid if they'd become insolvent and they have to liquidate, we kind of help them do an assignment for the benefit of creditors liquidate.

So one of the things we're doing is how do you survive a nuclear winter, so to speak? And everyone's got different advice. But one of the things I was just told by VC was that they're counseling their companies that they really should have two years of runway, you know, not six months anymore. Now, two years would it it may be sound like an arbitrary amount, but at least it seems like what you're saying is that we don't really know exactly how long the storm is gonna last. Maybe it'll just be a false alarm on the hurricane.

But if a storm is coming, you should have more burn time left and more runway than you otherwise would have. You agree with that? I completely agree with that. I mean, the one thing that has happened, however, over the last two years, it has been a record fundraising for venture capital funds. Record amounts of capital has been raised.

Most of that has not been invested. So that's a different dynamic in a downturn than what I've seen in the past. If you look at when there's been corrections, usually, fundraising starts to pull away. So your ability to raise your next fund is harder because people as institutions are retrenching and not wanting as much illiquid exposure. And usually, those vintage years are exceptional because there's just less capital in the market in the system.

Less me too companies being backed. Now it's gonna be a little bit interesting because there's so much capital that has been raised that has not yet been invested. And I think those funds are gonna be very well positioned to be making the right investment calls in new situations today. You know, it's a fascinating observation that I had not really thought about. But if I understand what you're saying, because there was this record amount of money that came in, and we can talk about zero interest rates and what the government did with quantitative easing.

There's all this money out there. And so it's not like it's all going away tomorrow. But now because they know they may not get new bullets, so to speak, they're gonna make this money count. And I think what the end result will be is that if you really have a pathway to profitability, if you really do have a pathway to selling your company or taking it public, and you can get those metrics and prove them to your investors, there's gonna be a lot of capital available to you. However, there's gonna be also a cleansing of a lot of companies that were kinda hope and prayers where he said, you know, this probably is not gonna work, but I love this team and I have all this capital to deploy.

And so a lot of money went into these kind of feel good companies, and those are the companies that are gonna unfortunately go, you know, please please give me the money. And they're and they're technically is the money for them, but they're the ones that are gonna have a real hard time. I don't disagree. The other piece that is likely to happen is there are thousands of emerging managers in venture. The barriers to entry to become an emerging manager in venture is very low.

I think one of the things that will happen as well is that there will be some entrance into being venture capitalists that decide that they wanna do something else or that they're better positioned to do something else, going back to an entrepreneurial field, starting a new company, going back to from where they came as opposed to continuing to try and and raise a fund. It's painful. It's very painful, but I think it's not very positive for the industry. And even I think there's a flip side of that, which is I know some more, what I would call senior VCs, that realize they've had a really good run, and that the two years of down rounds and firing people and all the negativity is such that they're gonna take early retirement. They really are saying this is not gonna be a fun couple of years.

I think it's all gonna be really healthy because I think the companies that need to get funded, it sounds like are gonna get funded because there's plenty of capital. Those people who really, you know, it's time for them to go and go do something else. They're gonna kinda reshuffle the deck and go out. And so something really positive is gonna come out of this, but it sounds like it may be a little painful for those people who are having to make those changes. Yeah.

I would agree with that. One of the nice things, however, about early stage investing, which most emerging managers are doing very early stage investing, is that sort of what's going on in the macro markets, except for fundraising, is static. Right? Because you're just busy growing your company. You're busy getting customers.

You're busy accelerating, you know, your business. And the returns can be exceptional. It just takes longer if there's not an exit market for some years. Right. That makes sense.

So do you have a secret for, you know, and strategy for finding these emerging managers in venture? Well, I have to tell you what is all you do as emerging managers in venture, you put out a flag and there's no shortage of inbound interest, especially when you have a new fund of funds because then there are not re up slots that are already taken. I will also say that, you know, there's the traditional network of people, institutions referring funds to you. We get it top of funnel from our educational program. And then we also are finding that because we have this focus on being supportive of emerging managers in venture, It helps us to get into opportunities that are even a knife fight as an investor to get into because they like that we are being supportive of this ecosystem and giving back.

So top of funnel is not the challenge. Having a high quality top of funnel, you know, that's where having your voice in the marketplace, you know, putting out a flag and shouting from the rooftops that you're open for business and that you're looking to back strong managers in the in the ecosystem. As I'm hearing you say that, I'm thinking to myself, again, if there's a lot of money out there and there's a lot of these new funds forming that wanna find capital, so then they have to decide who they're gonna go with. I mean, having a team like yours that have lived through different cycles and then have the experience and then have the educational programs. That's gotta be a very positive differentiator.

I think it is. I will also say that in our educational program, we are trying to bring in institutional investors, family offices, high net worth individuals, endowments foundations that want to invest in emerging managers in venture. And so that also is another source of deal flow as we get closer to the other folks in the ecosystem who are being supportive of emerging managers in venture. Venture. So in the traditional venture model of VC, if they're like the lead investor will often go on the board, you know, will have direct contact with the founders of these companies.

Do you have that similar relationship with the funds themselves as opposed to the companies? Or in addition to having that relationship with the fund, do you also have a relation with the portfolio companies? So, certainly, we try to have a very deep relationship with the general partners that we back. Usually, in a non COVID world, you're getting together in person probably twice a year at minimum and then having other frequent contacts on performance or or advice along the way. I will say in terms of portfolio company involvement, in the due diligence process, it's very important to talk to portfolio companies to really understand why they allowed this individual to get on their cap table, how they've actually added value, how they compare to other venture capitalists that this founder has worked with.

And so we get to know them, some of them, through that pathway. The other way you get to know founders is at annual meetings, I guess, on Zoom as well, but it's easier when it's in in real life. And they will usually come and present at the annual meetings how they're doing, what their value proposition is. And so that's another way that we get to know them. When you're working with these funds and they're deciding what companies to invest in, or they're deciding what industries to invest in, or whether or not to do a follow-up round, again, in an economy like we're going into right now, do you get involved in coaching them in that perspective?

There is a legal definition of a limited partner versus a general partner. And if you break that barrier, you don't any longer have the limited partner protections. So, no, we are not advising general partners on what companies to invest in, what strategies to pursue. Instead, at the upfront investment decision process, they tell us what strategies they are pursuing and what types of portfolio companies they invest in and like, and we decide whether or not we wanna join them on their journey. So much like a lender doesn't want lender liability by telling a borrower how to spend the money, you are in a sense.

Passive's too light a word because you're more than passive. Right? It's like an independent contractor. I mean, they're gonna make their own decisions. You can kinda consult, coach, and otherwise, but ultimately, it's their decision and you're just giving them advice.

Yes. Lender liability is a perfect Got it. Analogy. Got it. In this new economy that may or may not last for a while, but when we're in this like deglobalization and presumably for the short run, at least we're not gonna do another round of PPP in a big way.

You look at all types of industries and you're seeing all sorts of different types of investments. Where's the puck going? Where do you see venture money focusing in the next few years? So I'll tell you, one of the places the puck is going continues to be diverse emerging managers. The federal government has just put out an enormous amount of money at the state level to support diverse venture capital and private equity alternative industry capital to support diverse managers.

It's part of a federal initiative to build back better, but it's a amazing amount of capital. And so that will help to propel many diverse emerging managers in venture across the country. Also, we're finding a lot of institutions are financial institutions as well as some large corporates that are investing off balance sheet in diverse emerging managers. So all of that is to say, I do believe that the venture capital ecosystem is going to look a lot more diverse than it has been historically. So when you look at the different infrastructure bills that were being discussed and otherwise, at least I'm aware of give or take a trillion dollar infrastructure bill that passed, but there's a lot of elements to it.

But I know from someone that sells bonds to states, the states are still getting money. And we're not hearing about it on face the nation to meet the press, but it sounds like some of that infrastructure money that has been funneled or is to be funneled to the states as they apply for it are for these diversity programs. Yes. And it's amazing to me the amount of money that is going to these individual states. And if anybody wants to learn more about that on the NVCA website, there's a lot of information available.

Yeah. Because that's fascinating to me. And I'm talking to VCs all the time and out there, like I said, dealing with companies. And, you know, we all know that there's money coming to build chip plants in America. And we know that there's money that went into battery technology and buying cobalt.

But I don't think, at least most of my listeners understand that part of this infrastructure bill and a lot of the money that's going out there is to help in this diversification. And just knowing that that money is available can lead people to go to these underserved communities and otherwise and seek funds to build the companies of tomorrow. I think it's amazing. And this is gonna be one and done. It's not like the, government the federal government's gonna keep refilling this kitty.

Right. But it is an enormous amount of money. And it's also interesting because this money is also gonna be available in states that have very little venture capital activity, and yet they're going to have to find or alternative investment activity. They're gonna have to find managers to back. And so if you happen to be operating in a geography that is underrepresented by venture capitalists and by private equity professionals, you're in a great position to be able to get access to some of this capital.

You know, I'm thrilled we're having this conversation because one of the episodes of the Puck that I'm most proud of was my interview with sir Paul Collier, a famous economist from The UK. He was talking about how he came from one of these underserved communities seventy years ago and how the breaks and the opportunities that he had then are really not there today in the same way. And he was calling on the technology community to go out there and go to these underserved communities and realize that there is a connection to place and to really encourage people to do things for these communities. It sounds like some of that has landed on the federal government. There is this money out there, but now it's up to the tech community to kinda rally and understand and educate people, like, do an education program that this money is available so that these underserved communities can get the money.

Because we all know that if you had a sophisticated lawyer, you could get PPP money. But if you didn't know that this was available to you, you wouldn't even ask for it. And so part of what it sounds like you're doing is really helping educate people that this money is available. Yes. That's certainly, when all you do is help out emerging managers in venture, it is a very clean slate.

Like, you know your path forward, and so we're happy to be a signal in market of information that can be helpful to this community of managers. And I will tell you that the other thing that is very interesting is that these managers today that are diverse, they have a much better opportunity to get into some of the best companies. I was talking to a tech CEO, I think it was last year, who said, you know, in 2021, I cannot have a seed stage syndicate that's all Caucasian men that went to Stanford. You have to have the table stakes to be at the table for sure. But to the extent that you are an underrepresented minority within the venture community, I think you have a better shot at getting access to some of these companies today.

We talked about the corollary to lender liability. In these cities, the banks were encouraged to lend into communities that were underserved in other in doing things. And so they got a lot of quote credit with the regulators for doing this. And, you know, when you're going out there getting allocations of pension money and you're going out there and trying to, you know, invest in these big companies, it sounds like there really is an opportunity to fill up your cap table with some of these fund managers that have done the work for you, so to speak. And then that gives you kind of credibility and currency, so to speak, that you're part of expanding this diversity that as a country we're really focused on right now.

I will tell you the other surprising group of institutions that are supporting diverse managers. I mean, BlackRock has a massive initiative. Insight has an initiative. Goldman Sachs has an initiative. These are very large financial institutions that are putting real weight behind trying to financially support diverse private equity individuals.

Well, and I think if you look at the generations out there and if you look at the people that are writing these articles at the newspapers and online and stuff, the Gen X, the Millennials, otherwise. To their credit, they're saying to the boomers and everybody else, you've got to create these healthier, more balanced ecosystems. And so the BlackRock, these other companies, the New York Times are listening more and more to that generation who's finding its voice to build this more diverse community. It also venture capital is so competitive. It's been Right.

So competitive for so long. And to the extent that you have a different network, a different point of view, a different ponds that you're fishing in that have venture capital returns, but other folks aren't fishing there, I think you're better positioned to be able to outperform in today's market. I wanna circle back to something. There are a lot of different types of venture funds, and you could have picked a lot of different ways to go about this. What was it about your background and your partner's background that made you feel called to do this?

When you're raising a fund of funds, one of the large pushbacks is we don't really want the extra layer of fees and carry. I agree with that for certain types of investing. I believe strongly that emerging managers in venture is really hard to do. You have to kiss a lot of frogs and hope that many of them turn into princes and princesses. But at the end of the day, it's hard to do this.

Institutional investors often they've only have limited number of slots. Their check size is too big. There is brand reputation. If it's a brand that no one above you has ever heard of before, that's an issue potentially. And yet emerging managers in venture consistently are performing at the highest level.

Cambridge came out with a quantitative report that showed in any vintage year, institutional funds one, two, or three, or four, actually went up to four, represented anywhere between 5090% of the top 10 slots in any vintage year. So that proves that you need to have exposure to this category, and yet it's hard to do and there's risk in doing so. Also, if it's done properly, the returns that can be generated more than offset another layer of fees. And in terms of theories as to why they have a high percentage of successes, and maybe this is your secret sauce, but what do you think that's unique about them that they do have this higher level of success? First of all, nobody wants to be a median investor in emerging managers in venture.

You need to properly select who you're gonna back in order, I think, to have outperformance. And you'll end up getting one or two wrong. That's just the nature of the beast, but you hope that the ones that you get really right more than offset those. And, usually, it's because they're raising right sized funds for their strategy. They haven't yet gotten into the process of this fund produced a five x, so now my next fund is twice the size, and that produces a three x.

And now the next fund is a billion dollars. And it's just hard as a seed stage manager to have a billion dollar fund that produces a three x. So usually, it's that it's a right sized fund, and these managers are scrappy and hungry. They've got a lot of grit, and they are working their tail off to produce outsized returns so they can raise their next fund and their next fund and create a franchise. Interesting.

I've always thought that one of the barriers to entry, you know, in the venture space or one of the things that made it tough for the newer VC funds was that, like in sports, one of the ways that you have a higher average is you find people that played successfully for the season before. So as these people come out of companies and otherwise, you've seen that they've been successful, And therefore, if you have the relation with those people or you're being told, oh, you have to go to such and such a VC because you're successful, that it feeds on itself. And I wonder because we all have personal relationships. If we're small and we have the discipline to really kind of focus on those people that really are the true entrepreneurs and we get it. And as you say, we're making select fewer bets that I wonder if that figures into it at all.

You know, I don't disagree. So we need to see something we can sink our teeth into. We need some idea that you're a good picker of companies. Right. Yes.

We have backed folks that have been at brand name venture funds, and they've spun off, and they're raising their first institutional fund. Yes. We've done that out of our four investments we've made to date. But then there also are the individuals that have a relevant background, and they have an angel track record or a pre they call it a fund one. We don't call that an institutional fund one.

It's sort of a friends and family round. And you can really sink your teeth into those companies And they have an opinion that, yes. Wow. I would love to have exposure to these companies. Or, yes.

These are businesses that are he or she has been very thoughtful about why they've invested in each of these companies, and the CEOs come out of their skin about how value add that general partner has been. So, yeah, there's a lot of different ways that you can prove that you're good at what you do. So, Courtney, on the more personal side, what I call the backside of the business card, what are some causes that you're passionate about? So my father died from Alzheimer's. And ever since then, I've been very involved with the Alzheimer's Association.

I'm on the board for Northern California Nevada chapter. So very passionate about, you know, really trying to advance the amount of research dollars that are going to try and stop this terrible disease. It's gonna bankrupt Medicare and Medicaid if we don't start finding a path. There's not a cure, but also there's no way at this time to really even stop or slow its progression once you've been diagnosed. There's been a lot of research that's been going into trying to stop that.

Also, a lot more bills being passed that help to support caregivers and other folks in the ecosystem. For me, I joined the Alzheimer's Association as a volunteer, and I was going to Nancy Pelosi's office. I was going to Dianne Feinstein's office, and I wasn't meeting with them. I was meeting with their health and public policy people. I had never experienced that in my life.

I had never experienced how you're an advocate and how you actually go and you say, I'm representing I'm a constituent. This is my short story, and I'm here to say I want you to pass bill x y z because a b c. That whole process was intellectually fascinating to me. I mean, we all in fifth grade or eighth grade, learned how a bill is passed and how it goes through the process. But to actually be a part of that and then to see, you know, the it's being sponsored by this Democrat and this Republican, and we've got x number of members of house of the representatives or the senate already signed up for the bill.

We would love your support. Like, that whole thing, you can actually learn so much if you can bring your talent. You get so much out of it. I think it's harder to be on a board of directors and just listen, and maybe you have a relevant background to add value, maybe you don't. I think it's actually tactically more interesting to actually be in the field, being at the soup kitchen, giving advice to a 10 year old or a 15 year old.

Or for me personally, I just get so much more out of being on the field. So I've been very involved with the Alzheimer's Association, and then I'm also the chair of the Episcopal Impact Fund investment committee here in San Francisco. Tell us a little bit about that. So the organization on the giving side before doing this was such an imperative issue for a very long time. They've been trying to decrease poverty in the Bay Area.

So helping people to get residences, helping people get the resources they need. Obviously, that's a major problem in San Francis Northern California, in Southern California, and increasingly across the country. But I'm on the investment side of the house, so making sure that the foundation that's in place stays in place and is funded for years to come. So we, in our Puck newsletter, highlight different charities and we try to support different causes and stuff. We're all trying to get the tech community to do more of what you're talking about because we are thought leaders.

Right? You guys do see where the world is going. We're also some of the most privileged people. And so I think what you're doing with the educational program, your fund is amazing. But I also think it's amazing that you're taking the time to help these charities help these underserved communities as well.

So just I have to say very selfishly, I agree with you completely. But even our educational program, I've gotten more out of that. I mean, it fills the bucket to have people so appreciative of helping them in their journey. It is a lonely business being a CEO of a company or being a solo GP starting a new fund. It's a lonely business.

And when there are people that will help you along that journey, you'd never forget them. And so giving back very much benefits the person who's giving back. Courtney, I'm so thrilled that you you shared that. It's such a right brain experience, you know, when you're a hard charging CEO and you you have everyone yelling at you and you don't have enough time in the day and somebody's telling you to meditate or go work at a soup kitchen. It's like, are you crazy?

I I can barely pay my mortgage. It's hard to get people to slow down enough and trust you that, like, no. No. This will actually make you more happy. And so people really need to hear this.

Like, this is something where it's better for your soul. Right? It is better for your soul. And I have to tell you, it has actually benefited our investment side of the house too. I mean, when you give to people and they feel like you've really helped them along their path I mean, we've had folks that have gone through our educational program who've made introductions to their investors.

I had never anticipated that that would be a piece of what that relationship would look like. I will tell you though, there was a venture capitalist that we backed, and he is very involved with San Francisco political system. Gives a lot of money to try and make the city a better place. And, specifically, he's about, like, YIMBY, yes, in my backyard, and, you know, trying to increase affordable housing. There are people that are venture capitalists out there that are are taking these stands, and I think that it's good to be involved in your community.

Well, I hope our audience takes to heart and and looks for opportunities to do that and get more involved. Because again, we are all one country, and we really do have to figure out a way to come together. And it's going to help your neighbor and getting to know somebody and building those bridges. And if we if we don't do that, we're never gonna improve polarization. There's that famous story about the starfish where there's all these starfish lining on the beach and this guy's walking down the beach and he's throwing one starfish back at a time and there's millions of them.

And this guy comes up and is, what are you doing? You're wasting your time. And he says, yeah, well, as he throws them back, it sure made a difference for this one. And so, no, we're not gonna all solve this tomorrow, but I think the stories you're telling and the things you're doing, you get one listener, one heart to do a little more and it starts to build. I love that story.

That helps that one starfish. That's all we need. And then another starfish. Exactly. These are the conversations that get me excited.

No. I completely agree. And I think I personally think that some of the polarization has been going on in our country. It used to be that you would get together with people from a lot of different backgrounds and a lot of different experiences, and you would have that banter. And so nobody would get so extreme.

And now everyone, they moved to Colorado Springs, they moved to San Francisco, and they only hang out with people who think the same thing they think. And it creates a problem. I mean, my husband, I say that if he was in Colorado Springs, he would be a screaming liberal, and in San Francisco, he's a screaming Republican. It just he feels the need to be a counterbalance to what he thinks is going a step too far, and I think there is some value to that. I really do.

I think people need to see the other perspective, and I suffer from this too. You know, where you just think, oh my gosh. These people are absolutely brain dead. You need to actually talk to them to realize they're not brain dead. They just are seeing the world in a different way than you are, and you both benefit from knowing each other and knowing why someone else is going down the path they're going down.

If you go in there and that you're trying to fix the other, it does not work. We've been interviewing therapists that are dealing with anxiety because social media is making money triggering us, and we've been looking at bias, and we've been looking at taking back control of your life. And you realize that we are being manipulated by these technologies, and that we have to regain control of our lives and tolerate a little discomfort in order to grow. Completely agree with that and yet it's so hard. They made them so addictive.

I mean, I see that with my kids. It's It's like removing an arm sometimes to get a device out of a kid's hands. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed this. It's a pleasure. The Puck Venture Capital Beyond is produced by CMBG CMEG Advisors.

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